We are supposed to go make disciples.
But, what does a mature disciple look like?
I think it's worth thinking about b/c churches often exist to create disciples and help them to grow- but towards what? We could say- to be like Jesus- but what does that mean?
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5 comments:
A disciple is a follower of Jesus....one who is more than just part of the crowd that is looking for something shiny to draw their attention away from the mundane. The disciple followed even when they were unsure and when it wasn't popular and later even when it was painful.
Honestly, I guess it really was all about Jesus, following the Way, living and loving like he did.
But, what do we do with that? How does that affect how one builds a church? If someone decides to become a follower of Jesus, how do we cast the vision of what they are to become?
It would be important to acknowledge the work of the Holy Spirit in one's life. It is his job to teach and convict and all sorts of other jobs. This means that there is an aspect where we believe that one is committing to a relationship with a real God that is really going to show up in someone's life to help him to grow.
But, as for Jesus, I could point out a bunch of characteristics that Jesus had and tell someone to work on them. But, there's so much I think we miss from that. It then becomes religion- dos and don'ts.
Maybe Jesus' greatest characteristic was His love and respect, dependency, and submission, to the Father. Maybe that is what the ideal disciple of Jesus looks like. He is one who is dependent on the Father.
Just some initial thoughts. (as I sit here at 3:56 a.m. with a baby who I'm trying to keep asleep....shhhh)
I agree. A disciple follows Jesus, but more than just follows. A disciple (to me) is someone who wants to decrease the distance s/he is following from.
I recently became aware of a friend who did not feel a particular church was focused on "discipling" its members. I didn't really get this, so I did what I do when I don't get things and talk to people who mentor me. Anyway, I got in this big discussion about what it looks like to develop disciples, and in the most simple terms, it is exactly like you said, it's "following the Way, living and loving like [Jesus] did."
I think where churches fail (in my experience) to create disciples is that they lose touch with people's progress. Especially with churches like Mo' or CG, there is this huge focus on showing people who Jesus really is, that sometimes, churches like this get the individual baptized, get them in a small group and hope they figure everything out on their own. I've long been a proponent for a "What the heck is next?" class or series for people in that boat. I found myself in that boat for two years, and looking back, I feel like I wasted a lot of time.
I think if you are going to be vigorously seeking to save the lost, you need to equally as vigorously keep in touch with, maintain touch, whatever terminology you want to use, with those people. It's like a baby, you can't just say, 'Welcome to the world. If you need anything, you know where to find me.' You have to actively check up on the baby and their progress, and eventually they will figure things out on their own, but it doesn't come naturally.
This is where my business side comes in, which actually plays into your next post. I'm a huge fan of spreadsheets and keeping records. I'm a big fan of meetings (with purposes, not agenda-less "Let's just chat" meetings). I think churches should make more of a concerted effort to pursue people who have recently found Jesus. This should be a wing of their reach-out ministry. A lot of people are asking "I see the Way. I want a relationship. What the heck is next?"
This would allow said church leadership to help followers to see the Holy Spirit's works. It would teach them how to deepen the relationship they've committed to. I think it could help to teach utter dependence.
I love the idea of, "What the heck is next?" Great call. I agree. It does seem that sometimes the focus is, "get them in the boat" but then forget they're there. Then there's people in the boat who are fishing, but then this ever-increasing group of people who just got in the boat, but have no idea how to fish. They flounder around and might eventually figure out how to pick up the fishing rod and eventually can cast, but it's a much longer and more difficult process than it need be.
I'm at the Caton's and they're putting their children to bed and my wife's feeding Caleb, but they're coming back so I'll write more later.
Continuing.....
One thing I think about with church. How simple can we make it? I like to think about how much time we require of the people. Also, how much can we do with personal relationships. So, it's true that there needs to be the, "What the heck is next," step, but can that be done through personal relationship?
It could be formally training small group leaders to meet with new converts. Or, buying or creating 10 basic skills of following Christ- and finding someone who can go through that with you. Instead of having the whole church go through a "201" type class- what about just making it necessary for any new convert to already have someone that they will go through the 10 basic skills of Christianity with. Just adding it to the process- like you get baptized and then you meet with someone.
I wonder- would that have met your needs? Would that have been sufficient?
I think that would have been ideal in my particular case. I grew up in a Catholic home and went to church a lot, but my extreme and life-changing encounter with Jesus was through hanging out with Bryan Holt (particularly) and Mark Kazmier.
I got in the boat, and I tried to emulate them casting and fishing, but I just tangled myself up. Later, Daubert taught me to fish, and eventually I bought my own boat and struck out.
I think if there had been someone there to guide me in a personal relationship, it would have been better and easier.
We say we want to express to people the importance of a personal relationship with Jesus, then teach them what that is like in a big church 201 type class. How do we relate that corporate setting to a relationship with Christ? I don't know. Clearly it works for some people/churches and maybe should remain as a tool. On the other hand, perhaps a new tool along the lines of what you described should be developed.
I think it would be awesome to train small group leaders to reach out to recently baptized folks to teach them as you said, the 10 basic skills for following Christ. If you are so blessed that your small group leaders and other leaders are not meeting the needs of a growing volume of new believers, then, by all means praise God, and consider developing a team devoted to these personal relationships. I believe if you are so blessed, then God is going to provide the resources needed. I think if this were something a church was to do, it would have to be intentional and planned from day one so it would be another part of the vision that people could catch, eventually get, and ultimately be excited and enthusiastic for.
When I was considering working at Forefront, I noticed a program on their youth group website called "3:1" and I thought, "Why don't adults do that?" It was basically one adult leader and three kids, who were committed to hanging out twice a month. It was about developing relationships among the three and developing an understanding for the crucial nature of having mentors.
Just to express the flipside really quick. The advantage of a corporate 201 class is that it requires less volunteer commitment, so you are not putting as many time-taking requests on the shoulders of the volunteer leaders in your church. I agree with you that requiring too much of people is going to burn them out and lead them into discontent and all that goes with that.
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